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By now, I know you’re all asking yourselves, “sure, but what does Stoaty think about this here Libya adventure?”

In principle, I’m all for it. We should have smashed Gadaffi flat forty years ago.

Having such explicit anti-assassination policy is extremely stupid of us. And kind of unAmerican. In the case of Gaddafi (or Castro or Saddam), we’re saying it’s morally better to let millions of little guys suffer and thousands die than to kill the one raving nutcase princeling causing the problem. Doesn’t add up.

Not that we should travel ’round the world killin’ bad guys. That’s an idea for a comic book, not a foreign policy. But we also shouldn’t promise faithfully that we’ll never, ever target the man at the top, even when he has American blood on his hands.

Telling enemies in advance all the bad things you’re not going to do under any circumstances is strategically dumb.

But this thing? This has Operation Clusterfuck written all over it with a Sharpie. A few weeks ago, we might have made a big difference with a small intervention. Now? God knows.

Nobody’s in charge. Nobody knows what the mission is. Obama’s doing his best not to get any of it on him. Oh, and for all we know, the rebels we’re protecting are ululating Islamist douch-hats like we’re busy killing in other parts of the world.

So, yes, I’m against this operation just because Obama is in office. But it’s not about his politics, it’s about his naked incompetence.


Comment from David Bain
Time: March 23, 2011, 9:15 pm

It’s also strange that the Arab League were onside to start with and now they’re doing an Obama and keeping the shit off their shoes.

Yay! First in!

Comment from Mono The Elderish
Time: March 23, 2011, 9:21 pm

well, at this point i’m hoping the brits “accidentally” take ‘im out. it’d save us a lot of trouble.

Comment from S. Weasel
Time: March 23, 2011, 9:23 pm

Our anti-assassination policy was put into place by Ford in an executive order, which was renewed by Carter and then Reagan. Apparently as a reaction to the Kennedy administration’s attempts to assassinate Castro.

It always bothered me though. It’s like Big Guys saying Big Guys must be protected even if they kill lots of little guys. I’m not usually a class warrior, but I don’t like the sound of that.

Comment from Sven in Colorado
Time: March 23, 2011, 10:02 pm

Its imperative that this sorry sack’o’protoplasm (with about as much spinal fortitude as an amoeba)is removed from the oval office STAT!

The twit is incompetent, inept, incapable and…. incontinent when it comes to budgeting time, the people’s money or his own decisions. I am beginning to think that he has been through a full round of electro-shock therapy, leaving his tiny “Community Organizer” frontal brain a quivering mass of synaptic hiccups!

Comment from Mike C.
Time: March 23, 2011, 11:17 pm

The blind leading the dumb…

And no, I don’t mean they can’t talk.

Comment from Mike James
Time: March 23, 2011, 11:41 pm

I would say not so much Kennedy trying to off Castro, but Kennedy actually taking out an ally, Diem of South Vietnam. It looks bad to go around causing the deaths of friendly heads of state, even if they are demonstrably despotic. Makes it hard to get others to cooperate with us in the future.

Comment from Armybrat
Time: March 24, 2011, 12:12 am

Unless I’m missing something, I find no US compelling interest in Libya. Sure there’s that whole killing your countryman kind of thing…..but really we’ve been happy to let the mullahs slaughter fellow Iranians and all sorts of africans inflict genocide upon their neighbor. So why Libya? Oil? No…that would be europe’s benefit. Preventing civil war….no, that’s been going on for a couple of weeks. Protect the civilians…really? This is the part of the world that is willing to strap bombs onto their Down syndrome children.
I see no reason why my countrymen ( and family members) are in harms way…..other than the POS in the white house can’t produce a cohesive and coherent foriegn

Comment from Armybrat
Time: March 24, 2011, 12:21 am

…..(continued from above)
Other than the POS in the white house can’t produce a cohesive and coherent foreign policy.

During our last presidential election, the eurowenies were positively giddy at the idea of ” a post American” world. Well, here it is! And what do we see….a “coalition” that can’t even last 24 hours. And once again, my country is footing the bill for europe.

Comment from S. Weasel
Time: March 24, 2011, 12:23 am

Over his “career” Gaddafi has done plenty of things that should have put him on the short list for elimination many times. He paid for and trained lots of terrorists, including the IRA, and Britain broke off relations after one of his guys fired at protesters in London and killed a policewoman. He funded dozens of assassinations and still offers a bounty for killing his critics abroad. Lockerbie, of course.

But there’s nothing special about now, this conflict. And if we aren’t going after him specifically, I don’t see the point.

Comment from Oceania
Time: March 24, 2011, 12:37 am

Well, given that the USA has assasinated plenty of democratically elected leaders of *Allied Nations* around the world, including two of our Prime Ministers (the late RH Norman Kirk, and the late RH David Lange) for their political beliefs – as well as an Australian Prime Minister.

I find it hardly surprising that the owner of this blog advocating the removal of a head of state of Libya for dubious reasons best known to himself?

After all, Gaddafi was in business with US government interests, US oil interests (now there is a blogfest), in and on business terms with leading British, French, Italian and German politicians, to name just a few. Even good old Donald Trump was doing deals with Gaddafi …

I look forward to the day of economic collapse of the USA, and the day when you take orders from Beijing, instead of interest groups from around Washington.

After all, America may have been the home of the free and the brave centuries ago, but now it is the very Evil Empire that it was claiming to defend against during the Cold War.

The World will be better off without the USA. We will have less murders, genocide and dead democratically elected prime ministers in our own country.

Comment from Andy
Time: March 24, 2011, 12:38 am

Anybody know how he’s doing in his NCAA brackets?

Because randomly picking between Team A and Team B appears to be the limit of his competence.

Comment from Armybrat
Time: March 24, 2011, 12:39 am

Oh I get that he’s a bad boy….as destabilizing a force as Sadam was. I personally think we should have taken him out after Lockerbie. But we didn’t, and we sent his main operative in that action back to his loving arms.

But my objection remains…what is my national interest, what are my nation’s goals, how will my country advance.

Europe was ecstatic at the idea of “not Bush” as a president. Well…..here it is! So why do I have to pay for it.

Comment from Oceania
Time: March 24, 2011, 12:42 am


That was the Iranian Embassy shooting, not the Libyans!! *Rolling Eyes* Please get your facts straight if you are advocating assinations of heads of states, least know who you are killing for what crime?

Most of the Funding for the IRA was coming from the United States for years, from Catholic families, in the eastern seaboard, from New York Police Officiers and Firefighters no less.
Oh look how that turned out in a karmic 911?

And who is asking you to fund Europe? Noone! Lamn self made up excuse! You are insovent – and about to collapse according to your ‘Federal Reserve’ today ….

Comment from S. Weasel
Time: March 24, 2011, 12:46 am

I think, as a matter of policy, we should never let American deaths go unavenged. But, yeah, the time to do it was right after Lockerbie.

Comment from S. Weasel
Time: March 24, 2011, 12:50 am

From the font of all knowledge, Wikipedia:

Gaddafi’s agents were active in the United Kingdom, where many Libyans had sought asylum. After Libyan diplomats shot at ten anti-Gaddafi protesters and killed Yvonne Fletcher, a British policewoman, the United Kingdom broke off relations with Gaddafi’s regime.

Comment from Andy
Time: March 24, 2011, 12:53 am

Wonder if we have an idea where al-Megrahi is. It would be a shame if a cruise missile strayed off course. But he only had 3 months to live before, so it would just be like the end of an NFL overtime. Sudden death.

Comment from Oceania
Time: March 24, 2011, 12:54 am

There is still little evidence for Lockerbie, as released in last International Tribunal.
After all, wasn’t it payback for that USN missile cruiser downing a civilian Iranian passenger plane in flight? After all, you didn’t pay any compensation for that? Remember the fine details of that one?

I call it an eye for an eye. The sister ship to that cruiser almost shot down an Air New Zealand flight into LAX a few years ago … you would have thought that you would have fixed that problem? Eh?

Sure Stoaty, you run around and avenge every dead American that you want. But you had better sure as hell pray to whatever god you worship that all those who have been killed, murdered and maimed needlessly by your nations foreign policy don’t come looking for blood.
Because then you will be in a pile of corpses of your own making.

You’d be right up shit creek if that happened.

Comment from S. Weasel
Time: March 24, 2011, 1:02 am

I always wanted to make a pile of corpses. Can I start now?

Comment from Oceania
Time: March 24, 2011, 1:10 am

Sure, sign up for some time in Afghanistan … you can collect Muslim bits like everyone else.

You’ll have to excuse the stench of ‘hipo-crispy’ however. Most people who are the innocent victims of US foreign policy or aggression have a really dim view of your countrys present actions.

Most Americans pretend to run around chasing imaginery ‘terrorists’ yet are immune from the reality that their own services are over funded terrorists …

But, like all good parties, this one is coming to an end …

Comment from S. Weasel
Time: March 24, 2011, 1:16 am

Yeah, you know, I don’t think the US army is all that keen on recruiting 50-year-old women. They’re choosier these days.

I’ll have to settle for promoting American interests abroad by being the loudest broad in the bars of Sussex. It’s a living, but you don’t get to make piles of corpses. Usually, it’s one corpse and you aren’t invited back.

Comment from James the lesser
Time: March 24, 2011, 1:16 am

If we’d been a little more accurate back in ’86, maybe some folks I knew in Liberia would still be alive. Qaddafi has caused a lot of grief in a lot of places.
Still, I don’t know what we’re trying to do there. Did the French force Obama’s hand or something? They have had some lively beefs with Qaddafi too… Or is this some kind of “the UN said it, the UN is god, let’s roll” deal?

Comment from Andy
Time: March 24, 2011, 1:25 am

>> I always wanted to make a pile of corpses. Can I start now?

Stacked nicely like cordwood or more random and dome-shaped?

Comment from Oceania
Time: March 24, 2011, 1:26 am

The real question is what will happen to the billions of pounds that Gaddafi has in US, UK and French banks – but to name a few?
Kill Gaddafi, take the money, and start rewriting oil contracts … classical gun-boat diplomacy … with dozens of brain washed patriotic supporters around the world cheering it on.

Well done!

Only trouble is that the world is watching.

Comment from S. Weasel
Time: March 24, 2011, 1:29 am

Oh, dear. I didn’t realize the world was watching. I’ll put my pants on.

Dome-shaped, Andy. Definitely. The other thing is WAY too, ummmm…Godwin.

Comment from Oceania
Time: March 24, 2011, 1:40 am

Now that we have reduced the conversation to a level to which the average American can understand old boy … lets talk about assassinations.

Isn’t it about time you had another Presidental Assassination? Not that I’m actively encouraging it, given the fervor here for knocking of heads of state that aren’t even your own?

I believe that you should lead by example, Stoaty, and have a few more ‘Home Kills’ in Washington to show the result to the rest of the world as to how it is done. After all, we are watching …

Comment from S. Weasel
Time: March 24, 2011, 1:49 am

That’s kind of what I was getting at about that executive order thing. I don’t understand this position morally.

So, the ordinary sort of military action where we attack military targets, kill soldiers (and sometimes civilians) and generally make lots of people miserable…that’s somehow less shocking than calling for the death of one bad actor?

I mean, it’s not like in the days of nobility, when we believed certain families were ordained by God to rule over us. It’s not even like they were elected by the will of the people. These guys are nasty thugs who rise to power through violence and stay there that way for decades. What on earth is shocking about the idea of taking them out directly?

If it’s a question of putting our own leaders more at risk…don’t we assume our own leaders are at an appalling level of risk already? (And far more often from home-grown nutcases rather than international operatives).

Comment from Some Vegetable
Time: March 24, 2011, 2:02 am

Oceania – you’re amusing and I like you. Do try to get your facts straight though. First Caterpillar and now you’re wrong about American compensation for the Iranian airliner that we shot down.

Oh, and sorry to disappoint you but nobody is likely to shoot Obama, cause we would end up with crazy uncle Joe….

So, you’ll try to do better in the future, right?

As for Libya, of all the oils in all the world, why’d we b other to fly over that one?

Comment from Oceania
Time: March 24, 2011, 2:18 am

Yes I was pulling your Beef with Cat, but a lot of their gear is now made in China – go check. It is called outsourcing, now made in China!

After talking to some Iranian families who lost relatives on flight IR655, regardless of “Islamic Republic of Iran v. United States of America” settlement the USA has never officially admitted responsibility, nor apologized to Iran, or the families of the deceased.
Besides, 200k for a family member on the flight is insulting peanuts.

Ironically, it was Britain who was squeezing money out of Gaddafi for Compensation for the surviving family members of Lockerbie, but you can kiss that goodbye now …. even though there was no evidence that Gaddafi was involved in Lockerbie.

Sounds like all fair to me – an eye for an eye.

Oh, and if you are really interesting in stopping dictators – go bomb Mugabee!

But hang on, Zims inflation rate is now less than that of the UK?!

Comment from S. Weasel
Time: March 24, 2011, 2:25 am

Ohhhhh…I’d go after Bob Mugabe like a shot.

Comment from Oceania
Time: March 24, 2011, 2:31 am

Well, set an example first. Go find some of those Warren Commission 6.5 mm magic bullets and find a Book Repository in DC …

Comment from Uncle Badger
Time: March 24, 2011, 2:36 am

So let’s just get this straight, Oceania. Would you be in favour of taking out Mugabe?

It’s just nice to know who the grown-ups are allowed to swat and who the nutballs want protected.

Comment from dawn
Time: March 24, 2011, 2:47 am

I heart you!

Comment from Oceania
Time: March 24, 2011, 2:58 am

Well, the US failed to help Rhodesian forces when asked, as Sino supplied materials trickled into Rhodesian during the Cold War, leading to the Communist take over of that democratic nation.
Hardly the USAs finest hour?

Getting back to Gaddafi … the real problem is that certain ‘leber-al’ come ‘feral’ feminists in the State Department and White House are feeling ‘oh so terrible’ that their little ‘Colour Revolution’ in Libya didn’t pan out.

It never occurred to them that the actual terrorists they funded that they might have to bleed a little to carry out the US governments plans.

Yes folks, *terrorists* – the rebels leaders are the ones that had to flee Iraq as their regular habits of killing US troops was getting the better of them … the US government is using your tax dollars to fund known terrorists to undertake another ‘colour revolution’ in Libya.

No wonder the Libyan government is attacking these people, they are Islamic fruit loops, hell bent on Jihad and forming an Islamic State funded by Oil.

What dos the USA? Oh – it bombs the internationally recognised government of Lubya, in support of known terrorists which are trying to set up an Islamic State!


Comment from some vegetable
Time: March 24, 2011, 3:03 am

Wow! Oceania is really having a good time. I’m pleased for him. Keep it up Oceania!

Comment from Uncle Badger
Time: March 24, 2011, 3:15 am

Oceania – answer the question you (inadvertently) posed and please stop wriggling. It’s just so undignified.

Do we take out your pal, Bob Mugabe?

Just a straight answer will suffice. Yes, or no.

Once we’ve settled that, we can quickly move down the list of likely suspects and isolate a worldview.

I always love it when nutters start ranting about the evils of ‘Western imperialism’, then start pleading for bombs over Bosnia when their client group du jour ‘needs special consideration’.

Comment from Oceania
Time: March 24, 2011, 4:00 am

Well Uncle Badger, how do you propose to get rid of your dictators of your Gulag Archipelago?

I suppose the same way I deal with the US economy.
I don’t use their worthless money, and I don’t buy US manufacturer goods (RLMOA), or even goods and services from US companies.

I place my vote, and make my democratic choices. I would rather purchase goods from China, and entrust in the Chinese currency, than the US one.

The same method can be used to remove Mugabee.

Comment from Frit
Time: March 24, 2011, 4:18 am

Oceania: Just an observation for you; Stoaty’s chromosomes are XX, not XY, so your “old boy” reference is a bit off target. Just letting you know, is all.

As for most Americans being, effectively, sheeple, I agree. However, not all of us are blind to reality. I’d love to see the USofA return to the Republic it was supposed to be at the start. However, I’m afraid I don’t see that happening, which is a shame. Glad I got out before TSA decided that public molestation was an acceptable security measure.

Comment from mojo
Time: March 24, 2011, 5:02 am

“Keep on the bomb run, boys. I’m gonna git them doors open if it hair-lips ev’ebody on Bear Creek!”

Comment from Oldcat
Time: March 24, 2011, 5:50 am

Of course, the presidents that did the assassination plots were democrats, and the Irish and easterners funding the IRA were also all democrats.

If Republicans decide to take you out, we don’t sneak, we send a B-52 bomber

Comment from scubafreak
Time: March 24, 2011, 6:49 am

Frit – Oceania/LordFlasheart appears to be on the outs with his favorite Ewe tonight. He just doesn’t want to accept that BAAH means NO! It always leaves him out of sorts…

Flashy, did you have any damage from that trembler down there? We all thought at the cornfield that your roof had dropped on your head and spared you any serious injury…. 😉

(sorry, stoatie, but I HAVE to give him some shit. He’s been off the board for a while. It’s a moral imperative…)

Comment from David Gillies
Time: March 24, 2011, 6:59 am

Just my two penn’orth: I don’t know why I should care about Libya. Some Arabs killing some other Arabs? Either bunch would like as not cut my head off and post the resulting video on YouTube. Fuck ’em. Best gloss you can put on the whole business is that when Libyans are busy offing each other they’re not blowing up the good guys in Israel or Iraq. Like Henry Kissinger said about the Iran/Iraq war, it’s a shame they can’t both lose.

Libya was important when it was Monty vs. Rommel. Now? Could. Not. Give. A. Shit.

Comment from scubafreak
Time: March 24, 2011, 7:25 am

David – Agreed.

A) We are already overcommited

B) Our budget is already overstretched

C) No vital National Interest

D) No Fucking Plan…….

And where is Clusterfuck Commander In Chief? Hobknobbing around South America on Holiday…….

Comment from some vegetable
Time: March 24, 2011, 12:11 pm

Oceania –
Just curious – is your computer OS Apple or Windows or something else? Must be “something else” since you don’t use American products.

Comment from S. Weasel
Time: March 24, 2011, 1:31 pm

I don’t mean to be rude, but I find Oceania’s missives a little too incoherent to get exercised about. And long. I have the attention span of a ground squirrel.

I’m not sure what the message is, beyond “you suck.”

Comment from S. Weasel
Time: March 24, 2011, 1:39 pm

Also, anyone who weighs the relative virtues of America and China and comes down on the side of China is not worth arguing with.

China. Geez. I could almost hope they do become the dominant superpower of the 21st Century. After I’m gone, please god.

Comment from EastAsia
Time: March 24, 2011, 2:07 pm

Oceania—I say, Oceania, this means WAH!!!

Comment from Allen
Time: March 24, 2011, 4:48 pm

You know there might be a problem when everyone is fighting not to be in charge. “You take it, no you take it.”

Another notion has crossed my mind. Have you noticed that all the countries that have, or are, rioting to get rid of the people in power are either given US support (Egypt, Tunisia, Bahrain, Yemen, Saudis) or have solid ties with Europe and have dialled back their anti-westernism (Libya, Syria?)

Pakistan is next.

Comment from Uncle Badger
Time: March 24, 2011, 8:09 pm

I just want regime change here, in the UK. We’ve en entire political class that I’d like to see driven into the sea.

Comment from Deborah
Time: March 24, 2011, 8:25 pm

Is it too late to talk about B.B. King doing a benefit concert for children born without rhythm? Because I am absolutely, positively certain that Obama would qualify. He’s completely tone-deaf—so it’s no surprise that he was born without rhythm too.

Comment from Scubafreak
Time: March 24, 2011, 9:09 pm

The problem, UB, is that you let them take away your guns. Now, your only real option is to march and attack the goons with harsh language, and hope that they play nice…..

Comment from S. Weasel
Time: March 24, 2011, 9:29 pm

Welllll…I think it’s safe to say my new server isn’t much of an improvement.

Comment from Scubafreak
Time: March 24, 2011, 9:47 pm

Hey Stoatie. I don’t think you speak Japanese, but you might like this story about Japan’s CAT ISLAND…..


Comment from Sven in Colorado
Time: March 24, 2011, 9:52 pm

Scuba, ya do have the option of rocks and molotov cocktails….oh yeah!!!!….and bags of flaming canine shite.

Kinda like what we saw in Cairo a few weeks ago. THAT was very, very productive……..cough…….*snort*.

NOW!!! we are no longer at war with Libya, gentle reader. What are we doing???? From the White House yesterday:

…deputy national security adviser Ben Rhodes took a crack at an answer. “I think what we are doing is enforcing a resolution that has a very clear set of goals, which is protecting the Libyan people, averting a humanitarian crisis, and setting up a no-fly zone,” Rhodes said. “Obviously that involves kinetic military action, particularly on the front end.”

WTF?!?…. W!T!F!??? is a “kinetic military action on the front end”?

Talk about Orwellian newspeak!

Comment from Oceania
Time: March 24, 2011, 9:53 pm

“Also, anyone who weighs the relative virtues of America and China and comes down on the side of China is not worth arguing with.”

Don’t bet on it. After all they own your debt (or most of it) which you will be paying off for generations to come, unless they buy you all up by this time next week? Now what can you buy that is actually produced in your county?

Scube:http://www.christchurchquakemap.co.nz/ the city is basically stuffed – 6000 + quakes in 6 months.

Comment from Oceania
Time: March 24, 2011, 9:56 pm

Oh, And Sweasel.

Since you are condoning assassination of political leaders to prevent ‘civilian’ casualties – why did the US knock off Norman Kirk and David Lange then – to name but a Few?

And if your pre-emptive assassination policy is really good, why don’t you bomb your own leaders before they invade another country minding its own business for its oil wealth?

Oh Sven, that is double speak for ‘you are going in on the ground’ – which you should have worked out by now …

Comment from Oceania
Time: March 24, 2011, 10:06 pm

Some vegie:
I’ve never paid for it – if that’s what you mean? 🙂
Why pay for US software? When you can use pirated software for a fraction of the cost?

Comment from Sven in Colorado
Time: March 24, 2011, 10:37 pm

Military speak is one thing. It is code used within to expedite.

Using the same code spoken from the body politic to and the general populace does nothing but obfuscate and titillate with words that sound good…and mean little or nothing!

It is a tale….
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing.

– Macbeth Act 5, scene 5,28

You….Oceania,whomever you are,in your presumption that I or any others of us here can be scoffed at and held at bay with a simple phrase; you have at least a well stropped tongue lash waiting. Debate the core substance if you will, and ask questions as to meaning. Dismissive declarative statements mean nothing and waste good time for us all at the pub.

Comment from Andrea Harris
Time: March 24, 2011, 10:47 pm

Okay, “Oceania” is definitely a troll. I mean, no one seriously believes that the US assassinated two prime ministers of New Zealand. That would be the Norman Kirk and David Lange Oceania’s babbling about. I looked them up. One died of heart failure — a look at his photo on Wikipedia makes that obvious — and the other died of complications of diabetes and kidney disease at the age of 63. So yeah, totally mysterious deaths that were *obviously* assassinations. And soon, New Zealand will be ours! Mwahahahoaorhorhorhaahahaha! (Really, what are they putting in the sheep dip down there?)

Comment from S. Weasel
Time: March 24, 2011, 10:52 pm

God, I wish we really did have super-secret agents who could assassinate world leaders and make it look like natural causes.

That would be awesome.

Comment from Ric Locke
Time: March 24, 2011, 11:03 pm

I wonder if “Oceania” is related to the late great “Phoenician In A Time Of Romans” of Protein Wisdom fame?

Pretty much the same set of lines. I’m reminded of the joke about the Jew in the USSR reading Pravda, because it was the only place he could read about Jews who were powerful. If the US could really do a tenth of what Oceania/PIATOR accuses us of, (s)he wouldn’t be safe in bed and wouldn’t dare post such drivel.

Ah, well, NZ is useful as a staging area when somebody wants to go look at ice and penguins, and they do sheep reel gud, but when the 10+ comes, Oceania will crawl out of the rubble accusing the US of having set it off. Perhaps a nice wool blankie (preferably blue) would be useful; I hear they’re good against bogeymen.


Comment from Nina from GCP
Time: March 24, 2011, 11:26 pm

And not even an amusing troll, like a happy drunk at the pub who keeps falling off his barstool. It’s the stupid drunk prick who thinks he’s witty but is actually just…well, stupid.

Comment from S. Weasel
Time: March 24, 2011, 11:34 pm

Well, if he’s looking to start a good old-fashioned internet fight, he’s probably come to the wrong place. It’s way too mellow here. This is where an eclectic bunch of web surfers come to wear their underpants on their heads.

At least, that’s the kind of intellectual atmosphere I’m trying to foster.

On the other hand, we do have an opening for Crazy Auntie in the Attic Who Blurts Crazy Shit.

Comment from Uncle Badger
Time: March 24, 2011, 11:56 pm

We do, Stoaty, but Mapp chicken is asleep at the moment.

Not that Oceania is any sort of substitute for a hen with mood ‘issues’… 😉

Comment from Nina from GCP
Time: March 24, 2011, 11:57 pm

S/he qualifies for that, at least, but I’d prefer amusing crazy, not stupid crazy.


Comment from S. Weasel
Time: March 25, 2011, 12:19 am

Heh. Mapp decided she wanted to be a mommy today. After they each laid an egg, Mapp went back to the nest to try and hatch the wooden dummy egg.

I took her off the nest a few times, opened the nesting box to let sun in, but finally gave up and left her to it.

After about an hour, there was a loud BOKBOKBOKBE-GAK (which Uncle B said was chicken for “fuck this shit!”) and she came running out to play in the sunshine.

Comment from Andrea Harris
Time: March 25, 2011, 12:20 am

Yeah, the whole “you people just suck you awful evil murderers I look forward to seeing you crawl in humiliation before your new overlords from (insert country currently on the ‘can’t they be the USA’s new enemy pretty please?’ shortlist)!” really doesn’t inspire that many chuckles. It’s sort of about as amusing as having some drunk who’s been heckling you all night vomit on your shirt.

Comment from Can’t hark my cry
Time: March 25, 2011, 12:42 am

So, Mapp continues to lay on a regular basis? Good news, even though it hasn’t effected much change in her basic character.

Comment from Sven in Colorado
Time: March 25, 2011, 1:28 am

Still looking for some compact, cold resistant laying hens. Given where we are, quail and chukar partridge would do well in a large venue…. Although, those suckers do fly well. Dunno what it would take to keep them close in without putting them in flight cages.

I am not one to clip flight feathers to keep a bird sequestered.

Maybe I watched too much Disney as a child…..in New Zealand…….with Brittany Spears dolls in my yeasty, pre-adolescent shrines.


Comment from Uncle Badger
Time: March 25, 2011, 1:41 am

I have (whisper it not in Gath) a distinct fondness for Mapp.

Just the other morning I was plonked down in the garden, trying to soak-up some early Spring sunshine, telephone glued to my ear (if I’d bred, my descendants would have evolved telephone receivers in place of ears) when there was a sudden explosion of excitement and feathers, within inches of my face.

And there was Mapp, stood before me on the garden table, head cocked to one side.

“Is this a new game? Can I play?!”

I tried to explain to my client what had happened but I think he decided I was just being quaint.

Today it was the garden tap. Every time I turned it on, Mapp ran up to me, convinced there’s a fabulous new game afoot.

I am simultaneously shamed and elevated to have fallen so deeply for a silly chicken.

Comment from S. Weasel
Time: March 25, 2011, 1:46 am

Thank goodness, we haven’t had to clip wings. We thought we would (and the chicken man showed us how) but they’re very well-behaved girls. They haven’t gone over the fence or over the ditch or into the front where the road is. They’ve only recently started walking around to the back of the house (and they run when we catch them at it, like they’ve done something wicked).

Comment from Ric Locke
Time: March 25, 2011, 2:06 am

Chickens, like most critters, know their territory and will generally stay in or near it. Here there be food, yonder be dragons. This comes to a screeching halt if there are too many chickens in the yard, but all through my youth many people free-ranged their chickens, accepting the occasional loss to foxes, weasels (!), coyotes, feral dogs, and passing proto-Dolists. We kept ours in a chicken yard fenced with mesh wire, but that was more to keep the predators out than to keep the chickens in.

However, making pets of chickens is loving well but not wisely. Birds, especially young birds, are every predator’s favorite snack.


Comment from Oh Hell
Time: March 25, 2011, 2:24 am

Maybe Mapp is wise – being a mommy can be a heartbreaker. And G*d knows just what would hatch out of a wooden egg….
Sven – how about Guineas? No, not Guinness.

Comment from S. Weasel
Time: March 25, 2011, 2:25 am

Oh, we know, Ric. We keep a close eye on them when they’re out and we’ve protected their run well, but we know there’s still always risk letting them out. Plus, chickens fall over dead on the flimsiest excuses. This is the main reason we’re adding a couple more soon.

If you go to the chicken forums, most signatures include an RIP for one or more favorite hens. Unless you have hundreds, it’s hard not to get attached.

Comment from Can’t hark my cry
Time: March 25, 2011, 2:30 am

My paternal grandparents retired to a ranch in central Texas (not geographic dead center, but not all that far off), where they had ponies, chickens, guinea fowl and peacocks. Probably some other animals, but I was still in the primary grades and those are the only ones that impinged on my awareness. As best I recall the chickens were caged away (I remember the henhouse, and runs), but the guineas and peafowl ran loose. I’m sure there were losses, but the peafowl were sufficiently established so that throughout my subsequent childhood to adolescence (we had moved to the Northeast, and didn’t visit much) there were peacock-feather themed gifts. Dunno about the guineas–but I remember them being fearsome runners, so I’m sure they did OK, but their feathers weren’t all that exciting I guess.

Comment from Can’t hark my cry
Time: March 25, 2011, 2:35 am

Yeah, Sweas–either the Internet is under attack, or the new server is, um, suboptimal. Not your fault, I know–but, well, BAH!

Comment from Sven in Colorado
Time: March 25, 2011, 3:16 am

The problem with the gallinules, like pheasants, all Grouse and wild, domestic “chicken” and the Aletoris, like the Chukar, Red-Legged and Hungarian partridge, or the Callipepla…the quail fambly …is that they love to run before they fly.

Just ask me or any other upland hunter.

OR, ask their dogs.

Comment from Oceania
Time: March 25, 2011, 5:12 am

Andrea Harris : Infectious Amyloidosis.
A rare contagious fibrila self replicating proteinaceous particle. You are probably familar with the common terminology of the word prion?
Renal failure was due to the clogging of his Bowman’s capsules with thick deposits it, and his other organs were ravaged.

Comment from Mark Matis
Time: March 25, 2011, 12:19 pm

For Sven:
My experience with Ruffed Grouse is somewhat different than you describe. THEY tend to explode out of the brush with the most god-awful sound. Turkeys, on the other hand, ARE runners unless they’re in a tree.

Comment from Andrea Harris
Time: March 26, 2011, 12:02 am

Well, the paranoids in New Zealand are certainly different. Not better, or more interesting, than paranoids elsewhere. Just… different.

Comment from Oceania
Time: March 26, 2011, 1:46 am

Remind me to post you the histology blocks.

Comment from Andrea Harris
Time: March 26, 2011, 2:02 am

Remind me not to read them.

Comment from Oceania
Time: March 28, 2011, 2:45 am

I’m sure you can cut your own blocks …

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